As a follow up to my previous post, Toronto Police: Traffic Enforcement More Lucrative than Murder Investigations..., I did some quick calculations to determine exactly how much Toronto Traffic Cops make on a per ticket basis.
Now, these calculations are based on a quotation provided in the Toronto Star article, Toronto police $100K club continues to grow, which said the following:
The base salary of a first-class constable is $87,500...So, doing some basic calculations and making a few basic assumptions, we see the following:
Under the Toronto Police Association collective agreement, police officers who attend court as witnesses during a scheduled off day are paid a minimum four hours, at 1.5 times their basic wage, even if the appearance lasts 10 minutes. Officers receive three hours of pay at time and a half if they appear in court before a scheduled shift.
Weeks in year: 52 weeks
Chargeable Days per Week: 5 days
Chargeable Days per Year: 52 weeks * 5 days = 260 days
Chargeable Hours per Day: 8 hours
Chargeable Hours per Year: 260 days * 8 hours = 2080 hours
Base Salary: $87,500
Hourly Rate: $87,500 / 2080 hours = $42.07 per hour.
Overtime Rate: $42.07 * 1.5 = $63.10 per hour.
So, a base level Police Constable makes $42.07 an hour, and $63.10 overtime per hour.
Using this information and the quote above in regards to the Toronto Police Association Collective Agreement, we find the following:
If a Toronto Traffic Cop has a Court Appearance Scheduled on an Off-Day, and if on that day he only has 1 Traffic Ticket to Witness for, whether he spends 10 minutes in court (if the driver doesn't show up -most cases), or 4 hours in court, the minimum he gets paid is the following:
Assumption #1: Constable has 1 Traffic Ticket to appear in court for on the day in question.
Assumption #2: Police Constable makes the base Salary which is $87,500.
Overtime Rate: $63.10
Chargeable Time: 4 hours
Total Pay: $63.10 * 4 hours = $252.40!!
If a Toronto Traffic Cop has a Court Appearance Scheduled on a Work Day before his shift, and if on that day he only had 1 Traffic Ticket to Witness for, whether he spends 10 minutes in court or 3 hours in court, the minimum he gets paid is the following:
Assumption #1: Constable has 1 Traffic Ticket to appear in court for on the day in question.
Assumption #2: Police Constable makes the base Salary which is $87,500.
Overtime Rate: $63.10
Chargeable Time: 3 hours
Total Pay: $63.10 * 3 hours = $189.30!!
Now, if the Police Constable has more than 1 Traffic Ticket to be a witness for on that day, obviously the pay per ticket decreases significantly. But, at the same time, that $63.10 rate is based on the Police Constable getting the base salary of $87,500. The higher the salary, the higher the overtime rate...
You know, these numbers give that comment: "if you don't agree, take the ticket to court" that the Traffic Cops always give you, a whole new meaning, don't they?
The fact is that at the end-of-the-day, whether they give you a justified ticket or not, if the ticket is taken to trial (whether purposely or by not paying the ticket immediately), Traffic Cops can make a minimum of $190 off of it. And if you don't show up to court, that's even better for them as they then get paid $190 for 10 mins work...
And you wonder why they would give you a ticket for going 4 km/hr over the limit when a Judge will just throw it out... It's because that ticket just made them $190 minimum!! Whether it was warranted or not…
This "sweetheart" policy that the Police have is disgusting... I mean, I understand that having to go in for 10 mins on an off day is horrible, and being able to only charge for 10 mins wouldn't be right; hence they made this agreement... Ok, I understand that. But, there's understanding for an inconvenience, and then there's exploitation of a person's understanding, no? I mean, Police Constables are definitely taking advantage of this... How do you think Constable Thompson pulled in $162k and Constable Virani pulled in $151k??? It's because Traffic Cops have been capitalizing on this policy and writing tickets for anything they can get away with... Even if it's not a legit ticket, they still get paid, so I'm sure people out there are getting tickets from them for no reason whatsoever.. In fact, the less rational the reason, the better! Whatever it will take to get you to take it to trial... Remember that time you got pulled over and you had no idea why, and then the Cop fed you some crap and you knew you just got screwed?... Yes... This is what was going on.
There is a simple solution to this... If the ticket that the Traffic Cop wrote is found to be either reduced or thrown out entirely, the Police Officer should not get paid for their appearance in court. That's it. Do not reward failure. Now, note that I'm not saying they should be fired or suspended or reprimanded for writing an incorrect and unjustified ticket, when really, that's what should happen. If the Officer is not 100% sure that a person is breaking the law, then don't pull them over and give them a ticket. If they are sure, then do it. Why do we have to pay for the Officer's incorrect and sometimes corrupt judgement???
And here's the kicker...
You know, when you think about it, if the ticket you were issued is for less than $252, then really, the City could be losing money on that ticket, not making money... I wonder if the Politicians who allow this to go on put that complicated mathematical deduction together?... I mean, now that this information is truly out in the open, how does it even make sense for the city to even give a ticket that's less than $252??? They are losing money on the deal because of the agreement with the Toronto Police Association... LOSING MONEY!!! Really, it would be cheaper for the city to just give out warnings when a person is pulled over for a traffic ticket that's less than $252... It would be cheaper. Think about that Cell Phone ban ticket... $155. That means that when a Traffic Cop writes one of those tickets (and it goes to trial), the city can lose $252 - $155 = $97!!!! Or if you want to be technical about it, yes if it's on a scheduled day, $189 - $155 = $34!!! And that's if the ticket is upheld. If it isn't, then that's a full $252 or $189 loss!
And for those of you who really want to get technical, this doesn't include the other court costs, like paying the Justice of the Peace, the Crown, clerical staff and etc... Believe me, this exercise may no longer be making money for the city... The only people who are directly benefiting from Traffic Enforcement, are the Toronto Traffic Police! And if you ask me, that's a serious conflict of interest...
Anyway, moving on...
The Sunshine list for 2010 (which accounts for 2009), has not been released yet. It is scheduled to be released on March 31, 2010. The Toronto Star article discusses the Salaries of Michael Thompson and Abdul Virani based on the numbers contained in the Sunshine List for 2009 (which accounts for 2008). Here's that list if you're interested: Sunshine List for Municipalities and Services for 2009.
I took the liberty of pulling the list from that PDF file, and cleaning it up in Excel.
Here is the list of the Top 30 Highest Paid Toronto Police Services Employees on the Sunshine list:
(Yes yes... I snuck 1 extra one in there since it was a Traffic Cop)
Also, here is a list of the TOP 30 Highest Paid Toronto Police Constables (Traffic Cops) on the list:
The lists are pretty disgusting, eh!! Yeah, well you should thank our Mayor David Miller and all of the Toronto City Councillors for that! They really are looking out for our best interests, aren't they??
--jackandcokewithalime
(Image:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/goaskaliceithinkshewillknow/3908893188/sizes/l/ by go ask alice i think she will know on flickr (Toronto Traffic Cop)
Copyright: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/)
26 comments:
Listen moron,
If you think you are smarter then the people running the city, why don't you run for mayor yourself.
The cops schedule 10-20 tickets for witnessing on the same day - idiot. So why don't you factor that into your calculations dumbass.
This is the city;s most profitable business. Get your facts straight.
Oh Anonymous,
You are so cute! Good for you! ;)
Seriously though, you can cry all you want to and pretend like I'm wrong and I'm a moron, or whatever you want to say, but I outlined the exact numbers of the reality of what's going on, and I know that's the worst thing that could have happened for you and your Cop Buddies... You can't argue with numbers.
Maybe you can explain to me how Traffic Cops are pulling in $160,000 when their salary is $85,000, fully inflated by overtime, yet the Cops “schedule 10-20 tickets for witnessing on the same day”???? Yeah, give me a break!
Here, why don't you read this story from the Toronto Star in regards to your precious Traffic Cops: Court work pays off in massive overtime. That'll be some good education for you.
And by the way, your comment that, "This is the city's most profitable business" is slowly becoming less and less true. If you had actually read the post, you would have realized that soon the city will be losing money on Traffic Enforcement because of this ridiculous sweetheart deal with the Cops...
As per the Toronto Star article that I noted above:
"Excluding parking tickets, some 700,000 charges a year are laid under both provincial statutes and municipal bylaws, 85 per cent of them relating to traffic and driving offences.
It costs the city about $40 million to administer the court services relating to traffic tickets, which includes the costs of justices of the peace, prosecutors and interpreters.
Six million dollars of that goes to pay the overtime costs for police officers who attend traffic court, although not all of that money is paid out in cash since some take overtime in time owing. (An additional $10 million is spent in overtime costs for police to attend court as witnesses in criminal cases.)
That means $8 million in net profit after expenses is collected annually relating to traffic violations."
So, the $50-60 Million revenue brought in from Traffic Enforcement ends up being $8 Million net after all of the costs, including overtime for Traffic Cops… And that $8 Million net is shrinking everyday. I wouldn't be surprised (based on the latest Ontario Sunshine List –which is a travesty!!!) if when they publish the latest revenues from Traffic Enforcement, we see that that number is closer to 0, if not negative.
But hey, you can't understand numbers and facts, can you Anonymous?
--jackandcokewithalime
PS: I clearly state in the post that, "if the Police Constable has more than 1 Traffic Ticket to be a witness for on that day, obviously the pay per ticket decreases significantly".
Oh, maybe you can't read?? Yes yes, who's the moron now?
Why don't you go back to your speed trap Bud, we all know it's not worth it for you to do any REAL police work anyway...
Seriously you have nothing better to do.. I agree with the person above you are a moron.
My husband is one of those constables on the list. What you don't realize is the sacrifice these officers do.
First and foremost, to prevent ignornant people like yourself who think they are above the law and to hold them accountable for their actions. Do you have any ideal how many of these motorista think their innocent and proclaim "not guilty" after speeding/DUI/reckless driving. Do you want those people on the road? What the hell do you think is going to happen if these officers are not in court to give evidence.
Do the math - how many motorist's are there in the city of Toronto and outside/out of province in relation to the number of officers on a given shift. What the hell do you think this is a free for all? Or are you like one of countless other's who hope and pray that the officer does not show up in court - in order to get off on a traffic ticket.
Finally, I don't remember the last time my husband had a day off. With 5 days a week of court combined with alternate shifts and fatigue. I applaud him for his hard work and I appreciate all his efforts to provide for me and my family. As well to keep me safe and others out there safe.
Stop being jealous. Their job is not without risk/danger. Why don't you get a second job and focus on your paycheque you twit.
Anonymous,
Since we are talking about your husband, I will go easy on you.
Everything that I've stated in my post was truth and fact backed by numbers. I noticed that in your entire rant, you not once disputed the actual numbers that I presented.
If you are upset that I have highlighted these facts for everyone to see, then don't cry to me about it. If you have nothing to be ashamed of, then why are you so upset?
You can bitch and cry about this all you want, but the simple truth is that Traffic Police should not be making more than Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, and even other Police Officers who are actually out there doing REAL Police work, like solving murders, rapes and assaults.
But instead of the money going to them, it's going to people like your husband. Who's out there pulling people over for driving in the HOV lane, and for not having a front license plate on the bumper, instead of on the windshield. You talk about DUIs and reckless driving, while those are the most minimal of traffic tickets issued (look it up!!).
You know, you wouldn't understand the frustration that Torontonians have with Traffic Police, because your husband is a Traffic Police Officer. You, as you mentioned, have a husband who has exploited the system to the point where he is in the Top Echelon of Traffic Cops who are making the most money off of the backs of Torontonians. You are directly benefiting from Torontonians' plight. How would you understand their anger? Not to mention the fact that whenever you get pulled over, it probably takes you no less than 5 seconds to drop your husband's name in an attempt to not get ticketed -which I'm sure you are successful in every time.
Traffic Police Officer compensation is a serious problem in Toronto. As I stated above, soon the City of Toronto will be losing money on every Traffic Ticket issued. How does that make sense?
It should be the City of Toronto that makes money off of these tickets, not the Traffic Police Officers. To most intelligent people, that's called a conflict of interest. And that's why your husband is making the money he is... It's because he his issuing tickets to people just for the sake of issuing tickets. Who knows if he's even doing it legitimately... As I mentioned in the post, it works to his advantage if he writes tickets illegitimately. That way he can go to court and make that so precious overtime that's making you live a life of luxury, while pushing Torontonians to the brink of bankruptcy and poverty.
Yeah, you should be real proud of your husband.
--jackandcokewithalime
I agree with you jack ! These cops are a waste of life.
If you think a cop who makes $150k a year is riding around giving out speeding tickets you're even stupider than this blog makes you look.
"stupider"? ;)
--jackandcokewithalime
I was just stopped today for the 5th time on Parkside Drive (Toronto's west end, south of bloor, an artery to Lakeshore)
The last two tickets I have received...? 60km in a 50 zone...not a reduction, that was the speed I was clocked at (no reduction issued, bc at that speed..a reduction would mean no ticket at all)
These are the most corrupt people working in Toronto today, any slight infraction (like doing the limit, but then raising speed slightly because of a hill) is immediately dealt with by ticket.
For all you pro-coppers out there, consider this.
Every ticket I have received on this street, was issued by an officer hiding behind a bush, who jumped out with his radar gun....What would happen if the officer parked his cruiser on the street in plain view?? People would slow down, to avoid the ticket...Isn't that the goal, in these 'community safety zones???' or is the goal more money for the city (and apparently the officer.)
And again, were talking 5 and 10 over here folks, before anyone gets high and mighty, who doesn't drive 5-10 over sometimes? If someone was driving 20+ over the limit, then of course the police should intervene.
Big thanks to ticketcombat.com who continue to allow me a way of keeping every stolen dollar in my pocket, and slowing down the cities largest scam.
...and for the wife, your husband is in no danger...he's safely in a bush with a radar gun...'serving' and protecting. I bet thats what he joined the force to do...
I have a story to tell.
My mother hit another car in front of her. Yes, it was her fault. But, it was at a stop light and basically she just LIGHTLY bumped the guy. No damage to either car.
Later the guy told his insurance company he was seriously injured and the car was hit so hard he flew 50 feet. He wanted some monetary compensation. Idiot.
The insurance company knew he was lying through his teeth based on the evidence...NO DAMANGE to the bumper, no skid marks...so no way he could fly 50 feet
Anyways, the cop gave my mother a CARELESS driving charge. He could've easily given a following too closely or just let her off with a warning.
First the cop was lazy giving this serious but widely interpretative charge.
Second, he knew we would fight this bogus charge at court...which he would gladly show up to get his overtime pay.
Cops give out careless driving charges out for basically anything. This is a serious charge and can seriously affect your insurance.
Sorry but I don't respect these cops. They just want to make their quota and money.
Don't give me crap about keeping the roads safe. Then they should apply the appropriate charges. Not the biggest ones they can get away with...knowing it will go to court and plead down to a lesser charge.
Wow! The original article is well written. The facts and calculations are mostly accurate, without debating every possible scenario which could occur at court.
The article does not however address the unseen dynamics of why the traffic coppers are giving out so many tickets and why so many get dismissed at court. While I agree there is money to be made from the tickets in court, I don't agree that it is common practise of Police to lay bogus charges. A bogus charge can lead to deceit charges under the PSA and possibly dismissal for an officer! $63 / hour is not worth the copper's job.
The suggestion of not paying an officer unless they win in court is not well thought out, as it would undermine the principles court process to it's very core. Such a system would lead to the very corruption and receipt which this article claims to the current agreement promotes. Such a system would cause the temptation to fabricate evidence to
win and get paid.
The courts / crown attorneys will do anything to hammer through their case load, including withdrawing legit charges for the slightest reason. The ticket defenders know this and make their easy money off this same system which pays the police. Most people don't know they can easily defend their own tickets at way less of a cost than an agent/paralegal charges. The court process is not about right and wrong or justice it simple is about quickly processing charges brought before it. Ultimately, everyone in the process stands to make money (more than the cop) except for the defendant.
Which brings us to why do traffic cops lay so many charges? There is no "quota" per say. But there are "targets". Theses targets come down from command who are ultimately dictates by the polititians who crunch the services numbers. Not much else in policing brings in revenue. A police service is huge expense to a city. Politians want to see some sort of off set to that expense. Tickets generate revenue. They want to see their targets met.
In short, don't blame the copper. It's much deeper than that.
There is no such thing as a justice system, there is just a legal system. Big difference!!!
I find that the actions of traffic cops have become increasingly predatory.
The only difference is the have they are working on the side of the supposed "law".
Case in point, it is an early weekend morning with light traffic.The predator is parked on a hill waiting to see who is not going to make a MUST right turn. Here The pavement does not suddenly cut off but continues across the intersection.
U have a change of heart and u decide to go straight. The predator then quickly steps out and waves you into the plaza/gas station etc. Cost: $160 plus 2 points. Yes, the law was disobeyed and perhaps one is short-sighted BUT was anyone cut off? Was it a do or die situation? The pavement did not end where one MUST make the turn. There was no heavy traffic that even remotely would have made such a maneuvre unsafe.
Second case in point: inclement weather conditions and u are coming down a hill and thru intersection where light is yellow. U sound horn just to alert others that you are indeed coming thru as you do have the right of way but the person who happens to be turing is a cop so the cherries light up. U are then issued a ticket for $360 plus two points. Reason: Fail to stop for red when if U had done so U probably would have skidded into the intersection and into the now oncoming traffic!
Is it just me or are people trying their darnest not to get another ticket only to feel really squeezed by a highly punitive system in a highly predatory environment that has insureres laughing all the way to the beach when the ordinary sap is trying their best to make ends meet!
You are a fool to believe the police are there to serve and protect.
There are there to serve and protect yes, it is called THEIR OWN INTERESTS!
Sociology 101 Crime and Delinquency
Just to add more facts about the number of court tickets that a PC has in a trial session.
Today, PC S. Hewitt (#5 on the list) was at 2700 Eglinton Ave. W with 19 issues on the docket. He was present in the room shortly after 1:30pm, and was finished by 1:45pm. 15 minutes, 19 issues, you do the math. This guy makes more than most of my professors, with less education and less work.
Since you're a hockey fan, and since you fancy yourself to be a writer, I'd like to hear you defend the salaries of NHL players when comparing them to doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.
Good luck!
Great Blog!
I personally agree with everything you have written. I was pulled over recently for rolling through a yellow at 50 km/hr. The light turned yellow right within 5 metres of me entering the intersection. I didn't accelerate, just cruised through. Cop behind me pulls me over. For what? He tries to trap me asking how fast I was going. I say 50, then he asks why I didn't stop at the light? The light that the cop went through and the motorist behind him as well?! Going to fight this ticket. As a civil engineer (I worked a year in transportation planning) I hope the cop shows up. I've got my intersection diagrams drawn up, my calculations complete. Idiot cops with too much power on their hands.
There should be a way to sue the Toronto Police for my day off work and legal fees. But instead, cops get paid to go to court while regulars are losing money.
In other words, the charge for speeding will add demerit points to your driving record and increase your car insurance premiums immediately. In the worst case for speeding tickets in Toronto or summons for speeding you can get can cause license suspension. You do not want that to happen, and you?
Toronto Speeding Tickets
Don't talk about cops like this because they put their lives on the line everyday to protect the public from criminals ,drunk drivers , people that drive and text AND people that go 4 kms over the speed limits . In life there are rules , you follow them and we have police officers making sure everyone follows them so we can be a civil functional society . Don't look at their salary because they deserve more . And also ...go fuckurself
k to everyone here i totally agree and some of the tickets cops give out are bullshit, no one on this fuckin earther stops ar a stop sign for 3 seconds, and yes they serve and protect, barely ever are they in any real danger, 80% of there job is paper work? And everyone always looks out for number one because cops are human too and they want more money for familys etc
Excellent calculations, I can't believe the amount of uneducated people who have never actually spent the time to look into the actions of these so called saints that do nothing but "serve and protect". If "deeds speak" as is the going BS on their cruisers as they hide in bushes or lay tickets or just plain idling (which IS against the law in Toronto), then cops should be held to the highest standard...but are they? The answer should be an obvious HELL NO --> http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/05/30/rookie_cop_takes_heat_for_arresting_offduty_officer.html
If anyone gets a traffic ticket I would recommend hiring representation so that you have that chance to dismiss the charge. If you pay the fine a conviction will go on your record and your insurance will increase. I always fight my traffic and speeding tickets. I have used Street Legal in the past and was really impressed that they were able to dismiss so many of my tickets. If anyone is interested in using their services call (416) 601-1500. Also check out their website for a free online consultation www.street-legal.ca
Sorry to tell you that base level police constable (minimum) salary wasn't 87,500.
Police constable 4th class is the lowest grade with a minimum salary of 63,436 for a sworn constable. this works out to apprx 30.50/hr or 45.75 at overtime rates.
The difference between a 4th class and a first class constable's base rate is roughly 27k/yr.
Let's keep facts straight here... for someone who mixes Jack!
This is a very nice post. Thanks for posting this.
How to fight speeding ticket
I agree with AUTHOR'S opinion. they did not reduce any crime rates in the city but they do have A LOT OF time to write tickets for others.What an BS!
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Does not matter what your BAC was or would be! If cops feels that you are under the influence, they will give you a ticket. Cops out there are issuing traffic tickets like there is no tomorrow! Thanks to the New Jersey DUI Lawyer of Stabile Law Firm for dismissing mine :) ahh.. i must say a great deal it was.
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